America’s Longest war

There is a modern myth circulating that Afghanistan is America’s longest war, despite the fact the conflict passed Vietnam 2 years ago.  The issue here is start dates; when does a war start?  When congress authorizes it or when humans are killed in the name of “freedom”?  The later is of course the answer.  The accepted start dates dictated to the herd fail correctly address the origin of the conflicts, just another example of “given knowledge” that is imposed ignorance offered and accepted by the “age of information”.

CNN’s Tim Lister offers this ditty

Unlike the Vietnam War, the beginning of the ongoing war in Afghanistan can be dated very precisely to October 7, 2001, when U.S. and British forces launched an invasion to remove the Taliban from power and rout al Qaeda from its mountain sanctuaries along the border with Pakistan.

Therefore, the start date to Afghanistan is 10.7.2001.  How does one explain the missile attacks by Clinton, Pete Wilson’s war and the ISI?  The Soviets invaded Afghanistan on December 27, 1978, American involvement in Afghanistan by way of supporting the Pashtun, the ones they now fight, began in the spring of 1978.  So there is a bit of discrepancy here, the start date is not precise.  Afghanistan I now entering its 33rd year of American influenced conflict.

They are pinning the start date of the Attack on South Vietnam as August 1964, the gulf of Tonkin resolution but this too is false.  In August of 1964, there were 23,000+ American “advisers” in South Vietnam, hard to call that a starting point.  The real start of American involvement in Indochina can be pinned to the Japanese leaving Indochina in April of 1945, the consorted attack on South Vietnam ended with the American withdrawal in April of 1975.  Vietnam was a 30-year conflict.

But Lister is quick to qualify

Whether or not Afghanistan is now the longest war that America has fought is a contentious issue.  The Department of Defense officially lists deaths in Vietnam beginning November 1, 1955 as related to the war; that’s the date when the Military Assistance Advisory Group began in Vietnam. Others insist that 1964 represents the year when the United States rapidly escalated its military presence in Southeast Asia, and moved from a support role to front-line engagement.

Because it is just a given that the start of the war in Afghanistan is post 9-11, this is a mistake. The war in Afghanistan started over 30 years ago.

But it gets better , Tim also points out:

Another critical difference is that the Vietnam War was part of a larger ideological battle fueled and financed by the superpowers – pitching communism against the free-market democracies in a giant game of dominoes that was played out on five continents.  The Afghan War is part of a new paradigm: a clash of “value systems,” one based on culture and religion rather than political philosophy.  The term the military uses is the “asymmetrical war.”

Therefore, Tim sees it as a crusade plan and simple where as Vietnam was a bigger battle, pinko vs., good guy, rather than Mooslim vs Christer.  He neglects to mention the role of Vietnamese nationalism, the lack of influence of USSR and China on the North Vietnamese.  Is anyone delusional enough to think Vietnam was “pitching dominoes”.  Because if you are naive enough to buy into that, then Vietnam War can be termed a success.  The goal was not to allow the countries of southern Asia to fall to Communism, the delusional and absurd “domino theory”, if one wishes to drink this kool aid then the results of the attack on Indochina were a success. Sure it united Vietnam but no other country feel to this Vietnamese communism (because it was nationalism not communism); we now see a untied Vietnam  Uncle Sam can live with but if our goal was to uphold the “democracies” that the USG had setup in Asia post WW2,  then we should move that one over to the win column.

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Dick Holbrooke take on the “longest war:

You want to tell that to the families of the people whose names are on the Vietnam War Memorial?  The first names are from 1961, if I’m not mistaken.  And the last are after 1973.  And I think we should respect the sacrifice and risk everyone took in Vietnam…

Which clearly shows Dick has no clue.

The difference between Vietnam and Afghanistan, and I’m the only person I think who’s had extensive experience in both, who’s so deeply involved, is that Vietnam was not directly related to our national security interest in the way Afghanistan is.  We’re there because of 9/11.  And that’s a simple matter of fact.

So Dick is willing to accept matter of fact, that he is the expert’s expert and that Vietnam had nothing to do with national security.  Wow, what the hell did it have to do with then, simply killing Indochinese?  In addition, the victims of 9-11 are victims of the Afghanistan war that began in 1978, not 2001.

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